- By Ashutosh Jha
- Wed, 15 May 2024 10:54 AM (IST)
- Source:JND
Voting has taken place on more than half of the Lok Sabha seats and the debates are now centred around assessing who will suffer the loss if the voter turnout remains low. BJP's Chanakya and Union Home Minister Amit Shah, who has been interested in electoral mathematics since a young age, says with great confidence and clarity, "I have done a complete review, our voters are coming. That means if the votes are decreasing then the opposition should be worried." In conversation with Dainik Jagran's political editor Ashutosh Jha, the Union Home Minister talks about several topics, including reservation, Kejriwal's interim bail, leaders of other parties joining BJP, Naxalism, among others.
Here are excerpts from the interview:
Q. Four phases of elections have been held. Voting in every phase is less than last time. Where do you see BJP?
A. Let me answer the last part of your question first. We have already crossed the majority mark in the 380 seats where voting took place in the four phases. As far as low voting percentage is concerned, there are different ways of looking at it. Someone sitting outside directly connects it to the ruling party. But he doesn't get to the bottom of it. When a person working in the organisation reviews it completely, he looks at it differently. Earlier, I was also worried but after studying the situation completely and seeing the report, today I can say with full confidence that we have crossed the 400 mark and are reaching there. If you want, I can tell you the complete count of each state.
Q. The Opposition has also raised questions over your claim of crossing the 400-mark. They have called it BJP's arrogance and alleged that the party needs a two-thirds majority to be able to change the Constitution. Does it seem like saying this number was a mistake?
A. Who told you that saying this number was a mistake? The Opposition has no agenda. It is not able to tell its number. There is no need for 400 people to change the Constitution. Even with the numbers that came to us in the two elections, we did a lot of positive things and the Opposition tried to create obstacles. They were opposing our move to abrogate Article 370. They were also opposing the abolition of instant triple talaq, which would end the evil practices against women in society. We are working and will continue to do so, but doesn't the party have the right to expand? Yes, we need 400 seats, because there should be purity in the politics of the country, we need 400 seats because the borders of the country have to be kept secure. 400 seats are needed because we have to make the country the third largest power in the world and it is needed so that whatever poverty is left in the country can also be eliminated quickly. Congress had misused the majority by imposing an emergency. Congress had misused the majority by changing the Supreme Court's decision in the Shah Bano case. They had created their vote bank by denying women's rights. We use the majority to bring positive change in the country.
Q. But why don't we see the aggression required to cross 400-mark in voters?
A. There is complete aggression among the voters who voted for our government. You will see the result. In the last ten years, the people of the country have seen and tested Prime Minister Modi. They are going out to vote. People of other parties should figure out why their voters are not turning out. When the results come, you will see that BJP will be the largest party in South India also. No party will have as many seats as we have in the five southern states combined. This much is clear, you can calculate the rest yourself.
Q. The elections started with the agenda of development but gradually polarisation started from both sides. Was this to bring out the aggression among the voters?
A. Your question is a bit wrong. There was no polarisation from our side. It was done by the Opposition. If they talk about reservation based on religion which is unconstitutional, we will have to answer. If someone talks about leaving PoK, and talks about bringing personal law, then we will have to answer. Along with issues related to development, these issues are also important.
Q. But some parties in NDA even talk about giving reservations to Muslims.
A. Every party may have its different views. But the BJP is not in favour of it because it is unconstitutional. In Karnataka, there was talk of reservation among Muslims, not only for the backward classes but for the entire Muslim community. Who will suffer the consequences of this? Will our Dalit and backward brothers and sisters not suffer? If we say this then you will talk about polarisation. Is this correct? I tell you that as long as there is even a single BJP MP in this country, reservation based on religion will not be allowed to be implemented and in this country, there is no bigger supporter of SC-ST, and OBC reservation than Narendra Modi.
Q. You spoke about ten years... It was then that you became active in central politics. What kind of change do you see in politics and elections from then to 2024?
A. In 2014, the people of the country were upset with the UPA government and voted for BJP. In this election, votes are being cast based on the performance of the Modi government and hope for the next 25 years. The people of the country have come out to vote to secure their future. This is a huge change. Instead of getting confused by false promises, the public is voting for the one who has credibility. Who has done the work? Whatever was promised has been fulfilled. From my experience, for the first time in the country, voting is going to be held on a positive agenda.
Q. But questions are being raised regarding the performance of MPs in several places. Do you think there should have been changes in the candidates?
A. We have decided on the candidates by conducting surveys and reviews in various ways. Changes were made where it was needed. The work of the Central government has reached the ground level.
Q. But there is resentment within the party that a large number of people coming from outside were given tickets. The number of such people is said to be more than 30 per cent.
A. There is no question of resentment within the party, it's you people who are asking these questions. But can those who have been in the party for 10-12 years be called outsiders? Then you will also call me an outsider because at one time or the other, I came to the party from outside.
Q. But even at the time of elections, many people joined and many even got tickets.
A. The number of such people is very low. Must be around a dozen. And from where they were given tickets, more than half were our lost seats.
Q. You are talking on many issues of the Congress manifesto, but Congress has also promised that the work of NCTC, which was left incomplete, will be completed. Mamata Banerjee had also opposed this then.
A. Congress is known for its incomplete work. They said "gareebi hatao"(eliminate poverty), but they could not do it for forty years. There is a long list of such incomplete work. On the other hand, we complete all the work.
Q. Delhi Chief Minister Arvind Kejriwal got bail from the Supreme Court for his election campaign. How do you think this has strengthened the INDI alliance?
A. I will not say anything about the decision of the Supreme Court. But understanding the whole matter, his first petition was that the arrest should be quashed. The court did not agree. Then he corrected himself and asked for bail, which was denied. Then they raised the issue of the election campaign and the court has given interim bail with the condition that they will surrender again on June 2. If someone is considering this as his victory then there is a difference of understanding. The charge sheet is lying in front of the court. As far as the strength of the alliance is concerned, I would only say that wherever Kejriwal goes, people will remember the liquor scam.
Q. Rahul Gandhi is also in the fray from Rae Bareli, his traditional family seat. How strong a fight will BJP give in Rae Bareli?
A. The most objectionable thing is that Congress considers Rae Bareli as the family seat. How can any seat belong to any family in a democracy? Well, he was considering the entire country as his family's inheritance. What happened? The people of Rae Bareli will show what they want. BJP is contesting the elections with great strength and will win.
Q. You said that Sonia Gandhi has spent 70 per cent of her MP funds on minorities. What is its basis?
A. The people there told me this. And if it is wrong then why is she not denying it.
Q. This time elections are being held at a different level in Odisha. Never before has such bitterness been seen between BJD and BJP. Should it be assumed that there will be no alliance or cooperation with BJD in future?
A. There is no question of bitterness. If elections are taking place then issues will arise. We will have to present our thinking before the public as to where BJP wants to take Odisha and where others are taking it. Odisha will also be one of the surprising results you will see in this election. As far as future cooperation and support is concerned, that is a different situation. The support received from BJD at the Center was issue-based. Even the YSR Congress had fought against us in Andhra Pradesh. But they supported us on some issues. It is a different thing for the country to come together on some issues. It would not be right to mix the two.
Q. You said that shocking results will come from some states. Apart from Odisha, which states do you think will see this?
A. I have already told you about the South. Apart from Odisha, you will also see in Bengal that we will win between 24-30 seats.
Q. Opposition alleges that BJP wins elections again and again because of EVMs.
A. Making allegations is their only job. They don't have even a single fact to back them. They refuse to accept the decision of the Supreme Court in this matter. They obey the Supreme Court at their convenience. When they won Karnataka, weren't the elections held through EVMs? Rahul 'baba' won from Wayanad. Mamata ji came to power in Bengal. How is it being done?
Q. Why is election violence not stopping in Bengal?
A. You should ask this question to Mamata ji. There was no violence in any BJP-ruled state. Will Mamata ji answer? Is there anything worth saying after the Sandeshkhali incident? Who has not seen the way women were treated during the tenure of a woman chief minister?
Q. Slogans of freedom are being raised in slave Kashmir. Pakistan Police is busy suppressing it. What will you say?
A. There are two things, one is going on there and on the other hand, hear the remarks of Farooq Abdullah and Mani Shankar Aiyar ji in our country. They are talking about Pakistan. They are scaring India and the interesting thing is that Congress is not denying it. It is a unanimous resolution of the Parliament of India that PoK is also a part of India.
Q. So what is the BJP government going to do?
A. Elections are going on right now and we do not want to make any statement right now. But I repeat that it is a unanimous resolution of Parliament that PoK is a part of India. We are people who believe in that proposal.
Q. Foreign media is constantly critical of the Modi government. Do you think there are attempts to influence the elections from outside?
A. Look, whoever wants to talk can keep talking, the people of the country are very intelligent. People vote based on their experience. No one can mislead them.
Q. It is believed that the global situation is going to be critical in the coming times. What kind of preparation needs to be done for that?
A. This is the reason why we are talking about crossing 400. In such times, the country needs very strong and efficient leadership. Only Modi ji can provide that leadership. Even in the past, when many big countries of the world were struggling, India was moving forward under the leadership of Modi Ji. This is what needs to be understood. The people of the country also understand this.
Q. Most of the extremist organisations in North-East India have returned to the mainstream. But the violence in Manipur is not stopping?
A. There is racial violence in Manipur. History shows that whenever racial violence has started, it has lasted for one-and-a-half years. Apart from sporadic incidents, there has been no news of any major violence in the last six or seven months. Once the elections are over, the Indian government will take it very seriously.
Q. In the last four months, 91-92 Naxalites have been killed and you have said that in three years the country will be completely free from Naxalism. Before the formation of the BJP government in Chhattisgarh, what kind of challenge was being faced in this fight?
A. The first thing is that 112 Naxalites have been killed. As far as the government in Chhattisgarh is concerned, I would not like to say anything about any elected government but I would like to say that with the formation of the BJP government there, our coordination has improved and what I have said about making India Naxal-free will be fulfilled.
Q. You talk about protests, but Congress leaders are saying that the government did not help the poor but only the rich.
A. The Opposition does not want to see what work has been done but goes and asks the public whether the schemes are reaching them or not. If you compare what happened in the last ten years and what was the condition before that, your eyes will be left wide open. It will be morning if I sit down to tell you everything, but I want to tell you some figures. During the UPA period, there were 90,000 kilometers of highways till 2014-15. Now there are highways spanning 1.50 lakh crore kilometres. That means an increase of 60 per cent. At that time 12 kilometres of the highway were being built every day, now 28 kilometres are being built. See the pace of work. Talking about rural roads, till 2014, there were 3.81 lakh kilometres and now there are 7.55 lakh kilometres. That means it has doubled in ten years. There were 74 airports in the country, now there are 149, and they have been doubled. Then there was optical fibre in 10 panchayats, now it is in 1.70 lakh panchayats. That means 1700 times. Then the price of one GB of data was Rs 269, now it is Rs 10. These are just a few figures. There is change in everyone's life but what can we do if the attitude of the Opposition is not changing?
Q. How much change has taken place in the lives of the poor?
A. It's good that you asked. Rs 34 lakh crore is going directly into their bank accounts from DBT. More than 4 crore houses have been built. 32 crore Ayushman cards have been made, which means they do not have to pay any money for treatment up to Rs 5 lakh. Our mothers and sisters have 10 crore LPG connections and they have been freed from smoke (from chulhas). About 1.41 crore lakhpati didis have been made. Under PM Kisan Yojana, Rs 2.80 lakh crore has been paid to 11 crore farmers and 80 crore people are getting ration under Garib Anna Kalyan Yojana.